2005/01/24

RecallBush

Hello all. There is a new petition (created by moi (is that right phillipe?)) Recallbush. If you feel that something needs to be done about this man please sign the petition!! http://www.PetitionOnline.com/81178/petition.html

37 Comments:

"created by moi (is that right phillipe?)".

Perfect, spoken like a true Southern Belle, Angie :-)

Ok, done my bit. Tried to vote a second time but it wouldn't let me... dang! 

Posted by WhyNot
1/24/2005 06:34:00 pm  
I'm there Angie.  

Posted by Dianne
1/24/2005 09:10:00 pm  
More like spoken like a republican hating democrat.  

Posted by Anonymous
1/24/2005 10:59:00 pm  
OOHOO FINALLY SOME crazy conservative competition. Please leave your name... we won't bite. We're liberals. Remember... the disorganized, gunless ones?

Angie, I'd sign it... but I have faith that these things do nothing. I haven't ever seen anything substantial come out of an Internet petition. Please show me otherwise, I'd love to do something good today. 

Posted by starchybean
1/25/2005 02:41:00 am  
OOHOO FINALLY SOME crazy conservative competition. Please leave your name... we won't bite. We're liberals. Remember... the disorganized, gunless ones?

Angie, I'd sign it... but I have faith that these things do nothing. I haven't ever seen anything substantial come out of an Internet petition. Please show me otherwise, I'd love to do something good today. 

Posted by starchybean
1/25/2005 02:43:00 am  
Neither a Democrat nor a Republican. He's gotta be dumped 'cause he's nuts. I refer you to the writings of Dr. Teresa Whitehurst, Dr. Katherine van Wormer, Paul Levy (check out Levy's "AwakenintheDream"), Joe Bageant and others. 

Posted by Peter of Lone Tree
1/25/2005 03:16:00 am  
"Remember... the disorganized, gunless ones?".

LOL, yes, although I think Sarah's got quite an arsenal... She's our bodyguard.

"Angie, I'd sign it... but I have faith that these things do nothing".

Well, my view is that it may not bear its fruits, but then again you never know. And when the time involved is nada, and it costs nothing, why not give it a go? Nothing to lose. 

Posted by WhyNot
1/25/2005 03:18:00 am  
And another thing--you can easily write your own croo...er, uh, congressman and tell him/her that Bush is bonkers. Enter www.congress.org/congressorg/home/ and start raising hell. 

Posted by Anonymous
1/25/2005 03:21:00 am  
OOPS!
"Anonymous" above is me. 

Posted by Peter of Lone Tree
1/25/2005 03:28:00 am  
No arsenal, just a Glock. But I save it for the tin cans and the targets. I don't waste bullets on whack-jobs. 

Posted by Sarah
1/25/2005 03:38:00 am  
I voted for Kerry although I didn't think he would win. He didn't but I'm happy about my vote. I tried. 

Posted by Dianne
1/25/2005 08:47:00 am  
Yeah, I'm with you. This is the most powercrazed, vindictive, clueless and unaccountable president this country has ever had. 

Posted by tomharper
1/25/2005 09:43:00 am  
DONE SIGNED.. IF ONLY IT WOULD GET THE FUCKTARD OUT OF OFFICE 

Posted by APRIL
1/25/2005 02:03:00 pm  
I signed it ;-) 

Posted by APRIL
1/25/2005 02:07:00 pm  
starchybean, imagine if martin luther king jr (you know the guy dared to fight for blacks to have the same rights as us *gasp*) had said, "i have a dream, but i don't think it'll really accomplish anything, so i'm not gonna tell you about it."

c'mon, if everyone thought like that, nothing would ever change!! 

Posted by angiekruger
1/25/2005 02:28:00 pm  
i had a dream.. but it was of a tblog orgy.. 

Posted by APRIL
1/25/2005 06:37:00 pm  
As a staunch Republican that raged against the impeachment of Clinton on the grounds that it was absolute bullshit ... I'm rather humiliated to be a party to this ... for you to invoke the name of Martian Luther King, Jr., in relation to your petty, pissy, meanness is an insult to a great man, and his name sake I might add ... I suppose if I were as talented (and pissed off) as you guys I would now go off on a tirade telling you the reasons I think Bush is a super-dude, but I've had an epiphany. Someone once advised me to never waste my time singing to a pig, it will only annoy him. I finally get it ... 

Posted by Mechelle
1/25/2005 11:54:00 pm  
As a staunchly Republican Existentialist that raged against the impeachment of Clinton on the grounds that it was absolute bullshit ... I'm rather humiliated to be a party to this petition ... For you to invoke the name of Martian Luther King, Jr., in relation to your petty, pissy, meanness is an insult to a great man, and his name sake I might add ... I suppose if I were as talented (and pissed off) as you I would now go off on a tirade telling you the reasons I think Bush is a "super-dude," but I've had an epiphany. Someone once advised me to never waste my time singing to a pig, because it would only annoy the pig. I finally get it ...

 

Posted by Mechelle
1/26/2005 12:12:00 am  
first off "mechelle" this is not petty pissy meanness. and what i said is a very valid argument. if everyone does nothing, nothing will change. just as many people hate bush as do like him. you guys seem to keep forgetting that. he did not win by a landslide, he won by the narrowest marigin ever in the history of our electoral proceess. yes he had the highest amount of votes ever, but john kerry had the second highest. you'd do well to remember that. and i'm sure that your reasons for thinking he's a "super dude" are the same as everyone elses. that he's "stong and moral" well, people with morals don't lie, and they don't steal, and they don't cheat, and they don't discriminate against others who have lifestyles that differ from theirs.

now when you are ready to apoligize for implying that i am a pig, then i will accept for the sake of dianne, whom i have enough respect for to bite my toungue at this moment. 

Posted by angiekruger
1/26/2005 03:25:00 pm  
Well, I have to agree with Mechelle on one thing--that invoking King's name is rather innapropriate in this case. There's a lot different between an online petition (most of which no one ever reads other than the signatories) and the civil right's movement spearheaded by King. The rest of Mechelle's post: crap, but you already knew that.

The problem with online petitions, other than the fact that they are completely unverifiable, is that no one reads them. You'd be a lot better of spending your time standing on a street corner holding signs with the number of dead American soldiers in Iraq.

"c'mon, if everyone thought like that, nothing would ever change!!"

I don't think like "that" but I think that an online petition is possibly the least effective way to protest. 

Posted by starchybean
1/26/2005 03:50:00 pm  
but it's a way none-the-less. gray davis was recalled because of a petition. if we can spread it to as many people as possible....
and the civil rights movement didn't start out big.. it started as a grass roots movement. just like the protests against bush. and it is another civil rights issue. except this time it is homosexuals being denied rights. we can't fight for rights of one group and then say that fighting for the rights of another group is somehow less worthy. if any of this makes any sense 

Posted by angiekruger
1/26/2005 04:04:00 pm  
Just as many people hate bush as do like him.

Well, actually no ... that would be a tie.

He is the democratically elected president ... period. I haven't forgotten you don't like him ... I just don't care that you don't like him because it doesn't change anything. If you want to spend you're time writing hateful petitions ... you're free to do of course ... all I was saying is that I don't want to "waste" my time defending Bush anymore, and that brings me to the point of my calling you a pig. That is not ... not what I was trying to convey you at all. It was just an analogy saying that my defending Bush to you is as purposeful as talking to a pig. Do you really want to hear anything good about Bush? Would you even believe anything good about Bush? I was speaking only of myself in the pig analogy. I'm not going to make any more attempts to defend Bush to any of you ... it only serves no purpose.

But just so it's clear. Angie, I'm sorry that you thought I was calling you a pig ... I wasn't at all. I have only respect for most of you most of the time ... I do, however, think your petitions a mean and pissy. What I think of Bush has really nothing to do with his morals or his strength ... I think he's SMART, and I'm as surprised about that you might be. 

Posted by Mechelle
1/26/2005 04:41:00 pm  
Just as many people hate bush as do like him.

Well, actually no ... that would be a tie.

He is the democratically elected president ... period. I haven't forgotten you don't like him ... I just don't care that you don't like him because it doesn't change anything. If you want to spend you're time writing hateful petitions ... you're free to do of course ... all I was saying is that I don't want to "waste" my time defending Bush anymore, and that brings me to the point of my calling you a pig. That is not ... not what I was trying to convey you at all. It was just an analogy saying that my defending Bush to you is as purposeful as talking to a pig. Do you really want to hear anything good about Bush? Would you even believe anything good about Bush? I was speaking only of myself in the pig analogy. I'm not going to make any more attempts to defend Bush to any of you ... it only serves no purpose.

But just so it's clear. Angie, I'm sorry that you thought I was calling you a pig ... I wasn't at all. I have only respect for most of you most of the time ... I do, however, think your petitions are mean, pissy and pointless. What I think of Bush has really nothing to do with his morals or his strength ... I think he's SMART, and I'm as surprised about that you might be. 

Posted by Mechelle
1/26/2005 04:49:00 pm  
clearly then, you have no idea how many petitions against this man there are. i wonder if you have left the same comment on dianne's latest post, which is also a petition against bush. that it's "mean and pissy". in this country we do not have to sit back and shut up when we see wrong-doing by our leaders. and since i am not one to shut up anyway, i am doing everything i can to see that justice is served. and maybe nothing will ever come of it, but at least i tried.

you say that you were "raged against the impeachment of Clinton on the grounds that it was absolute bullshit" i wonder why you are not outraged that no one sees fit to hold this adminisration accountable. Clinton's lies ruined nothing. except maybe a blue dress. bush's lies ruined a country, killed over 1,000 people, and injured over 10,000 others.  

Posted by angiekruger
1/26/2005 05:05:00 pm  
You know what Angie ... before I respond to anything else let me say this, though I didn't intend to call you a name I DID do something I am ashamed of ... and I am deeply sorry for it. It was only the "intent" of your petition that I had a problem with, you're effort is to be commended. The fact you have to ability and desire to put together the petition is awesome, and I have nothing but respect for that aspect ... I did not mean to belittle your efforts ... no effort is ever wasted.  

Posted by Mechelle
1/26/2005 07:20:00 pm  
I wonder why you are not outraged that no one sees fit to hold this administration accountable.

I am here with you and you hold this administration accountable and that's why I'm not outraged that no one sees fit to. I know better. I'm not even outraged that what your holding this administration up wanting accountability for what I think are the wrong reasons ... because I may well be wrong. I am here to hear ... I want to know what you think, I want to know if your right in your outrage ... but if your only outrage is that Bush is your president, it's wasted. War are at war. War is terrible, but if your only intent is to stop it, then we shall lose this war. I think the Iraqi people deserve better than that ... that's all.  

Posted by Mechelle
1/26/2005 07:32:00 pm  
"Well, I have to agree with Mechelle on one thing--that invoking King's name is rather innapropriate in this case.".

I entirely disagree and see the use of the analogy perfectly appropriate. King's marches and speeches were for a cause he believed in and which had to do with humanitarian values. He called for non-violent demonstrations, both advocating for *good* things to be instated in the US system, and denouncing *bad* things and calling for their removal.

Angie's petition has exactly the same purpose. Of course it is everybody's right to argue that her cause is *wrong*, the same as many ppl thought King's cause was also *wrong*, but nobody can argue that her motivations are of the same league as King's, i.e. a fight for what she believes is for the better of humanity. 

Posted by WhyNot
1/26/2005 08:08:00 pm  
"I don't think like "that" but I think that an online petition is possibly the least effective way to protest.".

Maybe, maybe not. One doesn't know till one tries.

If it were something involving time/effort/money, I'd go along with putting some thought in debating whether the idea deserves investing ourselves at the possible expense of more efficient means.

But since it takes the best part of 2 minutes, costs nothing, and one doesn't even need to get off one's chair, I completely fail to see the validity of your argument.

Whether it is the *least* effective or not is irrelevant, it is just yet another means. One could quite possibly argue that our blog right here is also possibly the least effective way to pursue our cause and pass on our message. Still, we are trying aren't we? And hell, we're spending lots more time on it than 2 minutes signing a petition that goes along with our cause. 

Posted by WhyNot
1/26/2005 08:20:00 pm  
Michelle,

I just don't understand your attitude. Right through the various posts, every time your position is challenged, all you really respond is "But Bush is a good man with morals".

It doesn't matter what each of us brings in proofs that he is NOT a good man, it doesn't matter the mountain of evidence we bring to you demonstrating he's a liar and a liar again, and a murderer, you don't dispute any of our evidence, all you do is say "yes, maybe, but Bush is a good man with morals".

It's like talking to a brick wall. I mean, I would be quite happy if you disputed the validity of the hundreds of points by now we are trying to make you see. It then would make perfect sense. For instance you might say "well that's what YOU say, but I don't believe it, and I think your information is based on incorrect facts". Then we could have some kind of conversation that led somewhere. We might be able to thrash out the validity of the facts we bring to you and you might be able to show us we are misinformed. The result would be a net benefit for all of us, for each of us seeks the truth.

You seem to think we are anti-Bush for the sake of it. We are not. We are anti-Bush because he's proven to our eyes (and that of 140 millions Americans as well as 5 billion ppl outside the US - something which should make anyone ponder) that he is an incompetent, lying, heartless, selfish, murderous asshole. We are not affiliated to any party. I'm not, Dianne's not, Sarah's not, Angie's not, Bill's not, Spencer's not. We don't go around supporting or bashing ppl because of some party allegiance. We judge ppl for what they are and particularly for what they do. It don't matter what they label themselves are, if they are mostly good, we'll mostly approve of them. If they are mostly bad, we'll mostly criticize them.

In fact YOU behave just like a typical blind follower of a die-hard party member. You don't even try disprove the accusations brought against your leader, you simply blindly repeat, like some Church member, "Nothing you say matters, he is a good man with morals". It's bordering on the grotesque.

Lastly, you mention somewhere: "You all bash him as if there was not ONE bit of good in him". That is not the issue at all, Michelle:

It is quite likely that Bush is not 100% a monster. So goddam what? We are not interested in his 0.1% good, we are interested in his 99.9% bad because he holds an office of such high importance for the well being of humanity that it is crucial that the person in this office should score at least 50% good if not 80%. 

Posted by WhyNot
1/26/2005 09:27:00 pm  
I'm rather humiliated to be a party to this petition.

Mechelle, I'm not sure why you feel this way. You are not a party to this petition at all unless you signed it. Being a part of this group does not mean you agree with every person thoughts or ideals. I certainly don't feel humiliated by your comments although I certainly disagree with much of what you have to say.
If you feel this way then I have to warn you...you probably ain't seen nuttin yet. LOL 

Posted by Dianne
1/26/2005 09:34:00 pm  
now when you are ready to apoligize for implying that i am a pig, then i will accept for the sake of dianne, whom i have enough respect for to bite my toungue at this moment..

Angie thanks for starting the petition. I may well start one of my own in the future.
I'm grateful for the restraint you've shown because I have hopes that we can (perhaps) be an example that it is indeed possible for humanbeings to discuss the issues that effect all of us without going to war. But, early on I'm already beginning to doubt this is possible.

I Know Martin Luther King would applaud your fighting spirit. He left a legacy to men and women of all colors and nationalities. We are never to be silent in the face of injustice.

"I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law." Martin Luther King Jr.  

Posted by Dianne
1/26/2005 09:35:00 pm  
..that invoking King's name is rather innapropriate in this case. There's a lot different between an online petition (most of which no one ever reads other than the signatories) and the civil right's movement spearheaded by King..

SB I don't think Mr. King would agree with you as I've already pointed out in another comment. He said we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

The problem with online petitions, other than the fact that they are completely unverifiable, is that no one reads them..

I read them. I put my John Henry on them. I pass them along to as many people as I know in an effort to get as many signatures as possible. I post them to the blog to reach those I don't know. I visit other blogs leaving a comment about the petition. I am sick of apathy. It' won't work. Of course, it won't work as long as people do nothing. The Greens put out petitions do they not? Do you participate in them or do you tell them they won't work, scoff and walk away? How do you think Amnesty International and many other groups work? I receive notification of their petitions via email and then go to their website and sign the petition along with thousands of others.  

Posted by Dianne
1/26/2005 09:36:00 pm  
Do you really want to hear anything good about Bush? Would you even believe anything good about Bush?.

I don't like Mr. Bush based on his policies. I am not a radical Conservative. My dislike has nothing to do with how he looks although he doesn't do anything for me, I have to admit. That he may be a good father and husband is irrelevant to the issues we have been debating these past months. I for one never post about his family or enter conversations about them other than the horrendous amount of money put into Oscar de la Renta's pockets for his lavish gowns. Bush policies are a disastor and many many are shouting it from the rooftops. We post facts as we find them and it's not our fault they expose Mr. Bush in a light many would rather not know about. If you have facts about anything good Mr. Bush has done please do post them. Create a blog on it. Of course, being who we are we will no doubt disagree as is to be expected.

Mechelle, I realize you are at a dis-advantage here. I know we talked enough and you realized it before you joined. I sympathize and admire you for your courage as I've told you many times. I also have faith in the members we have chosen. We chose them carefully. I think they have been reasonable when responding to you. I hope this can continue but, as there are no rules it will depend on 'all' of us to remember what we are hoping to achieve.

 

Posted by Dianne
1/26/2005 10:15:00 pm  
Dianne,

If the last post by WhyNot is truly how he sees me, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, I've completely fouled up my intentions here, terribly. If all my efforts have been boiled down to "I think Bush is a good and moral man," hum ... hum... I must really suck at this... Thank you for having faith in me Dianne, and please accept my apology for failing so miserably ... as for WhyNot, do you really think of me as a "typical blind follower" of anything? If so ... I'll just hold my tongue out of respect for your wife as Angie was so kind to do for me.  

Posted by Mechelle
1/27/2005 12:20:00 am  
wow.. i can feel the heat from this... i would like to say i am the one packing heat (seriously i do beleive in violence.. i do have homicidal tendiences) and if asked to.. i will start blasting..

so see.. we might all be in here but we all have different veiws.. so why all the freaken name calling and childish behaviors?? 

Posted by april
1/27/2005 01:41:00 am  
Mechelle I'm going to send you an email tonight or in the morning. In the meantime think good thoughts. You're not wasting your time. We're just a bit frustrated. No one said it would be easy. :) 

Posted by Dianne
1/27/2005 01:55:00 am  
April, you are the reason I keep my guns locked up! :) 

Posted by Sarah
1/27/2005 05:16:00 am  

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